Welcome to our last session of
today and even of our webinar week.

So it’s coming to an end after this.

It was very exciting.

And so I’m already saying to everyone who is
watching the replays, if you wouldn’t be able

to catch all of the episodes or any episodes that
are of interest to you, can you will be

able to see them in the Replays
at the beginning of next week.

We will have them online.

But without any further ado, today I’m hosting
with my colleagues, Morten and Yves, our

guest, David Benoit from GRAFOC and maybe
just a small introduction to David.

David is the advice, marketing and communications
manager from GRAFOC for those who

wouldn’t know because it’s a Belgian Belgian
Flemish organization and they are an official

instance that actually gives advice and
also subsidies to some of the

printing companies in Belgium.

But maybe I’ll have
David introduce himself briefly.

And before we we head on to the topic of
the day, which is the headline is Employees 4.0

for Print 4.0.

So it was also raised already by a lot
of people in during this week that, of course,

technology and so on is very important.

But of course, without the people and the right
staff to be able to to work this new

technology, that’s, of course, a
big challenge as well.

So, yes, David, maybe in short,
can you introduce yourself to us?

So morning, Jacques, and
also thank you INKISH.

for the invitation to talk
about the subject today.

So my name is David Benoit and I’m working for
about 15 years at graphic, what we call a

training fund, especially for Flanders, so the dutch
speaking part of Belgium and we are a

non-profit organization working for, let’s say for the
first of all, you for the graphic

industry, the print media industry.

But we also have contacts with schools.

Of course we do.

We follow up unemployed people who
are on the graphic training.

We do the the intensive follow up.

So there are a lot of things we do.

We have a great network, of course.

So I think we are an organization
who has contacts all over the Industry.

Absolutely. And as I can add, you also gather and
that’s one of the one of the reasons why

it’s very interesting to to
be talking to you.

And the organization also gathers a lot
of data and information on, let’s

say, the evolutions in employment, unemployment
and the statistics of this all

and the impacts that new technologies and events
like also covid, for example, has on

on our printing business in regards
to the workers and staff.

So which is very important here today.

And so maybe we can can start your presentation
and afterwards and even in between, we can

then raise questions on the topic as we as we
said, that print 4.0 is in need of probably

new types of profiles, Job profiles and but maybe
if you can shed a little light on the

actual situation.

And there I have to stress and that’s important
to say even that we are shedding light on

on Belgian statistics and Belgian figures, it’ll be
more or less the same situation in

Europe, all over Europe as well.

In France, we have spoken yesterday Yvesand during
the weeks with a lot of captains of

industry in France, and they come up with the
same the same problems and they tell the

same story.

So it’s even if it’s Belgium
numbers, they’re applicable throughout Europe.

So it’s good at least that we have one
benchmark where everyone can can can go by with.

So, yes, let’s maybe start a presentation.

Maybe then I’ll have the word to you.

All right.

So first of all, I think I have to
say industry 4.0 or a Print4.0, in fact,

it’s not new.

Let’s say that it started at around 2012
and some call it the fourth industrial

revolution. But I think for for the graphic
business and maybe also for for other

businesses, it’s not that new, because if you
look at what’s happened the last 30, 40

years in technology, technological evolution, we have
the evolution of of offset printing

or flexo printing.

We had the whole, let’s say,
startup off of desktop publishing.

We went from analog to digital.

We have large form printing.

JDF entered the business.

And the last new technology, I guess, is
the the whole thing about nano printing.

So let’s say, in fact, it’s not that new
and the the baseline for today train today for

tomorrow. It’s it’s a very actual even it’s
even an obligation to to keep on learning

every day because we talk about tomorrow.

But in fact, tomorrow started
already today and even yesterday.

So it’s very important to try
to keep everybody up to date.

And for us as a training fund, we also
say don’t deploy only on technical trainings, but

also the evolution of the, Take efforts and
also in the soft skill trainings, for example,

language skills are today as important
as other communication or even leadership

trainings, a very, very important and let’s say
that we hear almost every day about new

technologies, which is very good.

But sometimes I have the idea that we that we
forget or the people who have to work with

all these new technology.

So I think that that’s an important thing.

But. Even important to get an overview of
the whole situation or the actual situation, I

have some numbers or some facts gathered.

And I tried to explain them, if we look at
the number of companies over the last 10 years,

we have a reduction here in Belgium of about
forty one, let’s say forty one, more than 40

percent. So that’s a lot of the reasons
why I guess it’s almost for every

business. The same there is bankrupcy of
companies that happens, unfortunately, but it

happens. We have also the tendency of
companies that merge now faster than predicted.

There are companies who won’t invest in new
technology or machines are too expensive or

they have no follow up
if it’s a family company.

But I think the most important reason
why, is the evolution in technology.

So and if you look at the number of employees
over the last ten years there, there is also

a reduction of 38 percent, which is a lot,
I think, for different reasons, as I mentioned.

And our prediction is that for the next four
or five years, there will be a decline of

four percent in the employees.

Also very important is if we look at the number
of people who work in the company and for

us, 92 percent of the companies
have less than 50 employees.

And if we look further, 72 percent of
the companies have less than 10 employees.

So that is a very important
thing to take care about.

If you talk about training.

If you talk about HR., etc.

if you have a lot of small companies, it
becomes more and more difficult to train people,

to give them the time to train and
to to keep them up to date.

But if you look at 2019, we saw that
about more than half of the employees followed a

training. So 55 percent follow the
training, which which is good.

I think I have some numbers about the
age, which is also an important fact.

If you look at , its called “PC130”, let’s
say that’s the blue collar population of our

employees. One on three is
older than 50 years.

If you look at the other side, only less
than five percent of the employees is younger

than 25 years old.

So that means that we that we have a
quite an old population of our of our employees,

which means.

And that’s.

A huge number, we expect that over the next
five years, 36 percent of the employees will

be retired.

So that’s a huge number.

Yes, that’s a lot of knowledge that leaves
the our print media industry, is something to

I think a lot of companies do not realize at
this moment what to expect the next the next

four years.

So it’ll be a huge impact, because if if I
may, if I see these numbers that you that you

give us here, Yves, I think for you as well,
if you can see that in Belgium anyway, one

out of three that are working actually in the
printing industry is older than 50 and only

four percent or five is
younger than twenty five.

So as you say, it’ll be a huge problem.

Maybe it’s not visible straight away today because
everyone is in full production and it

is going.

But yeah.

Do you do you see that same, those same numbers
in France Yves, you have an idea on that?

Yes, absolutely.

It is very similar.

And as you mentioned and we discussed
earlier between our presenatations this morning that

industry 4.0 regarding competencies
and and or capabilities

will be made between
borders, competencies with new

capabilities. We have new
competencies at present.

It’s a huge issue, and to have
to a huge gap hugh gap.

So, yes, David continue, please.

So the job offers then again
to stipulate it’s Flanders and Brussels.

So it gives a good indication yeah, that this
with with our part of GRAFOC, we call

Printmediajobs, we gather every day, we look at
the job offers we receive from from from

the Internet, from search engines, but also from
companies that contact us , who are

looking for people, today.

at this moment, today, we have about 710
job offers, especially it’s not specific for the

Graphic business, but some if you look at
the function of graphic design, that’s not only

graphic business, but also, for instance, for
a lot of four industries, but but

also put print and postpress operators, digital
Print operators and surprising, of course,

it’s also a lot of
job offers in administration.

So I have some more
detail here in this slide.

Excuse me.

regarding your slide on joboffers
I was a little

bit surprised you to show ,
You receive the joboffers in

mainly about IT , IT
developers are being in manufacturing

knowledge within to within this company to receive
this kind of job offers today in

Belgium? IN France We, Well, when I check
the new profiles for mainly online printers.

Often we, we discover, profiles
for IT developpers or

Lean managers in order to to solve
and to to streamline their workload.

So, David, maybe sorry to cut in, but maybe
that number of seven hundred and ten job

offers today is that only blue collar,
because the profiles that Yves is describing

obviously will be white collar.

Right. And we have the two profiles of white
and blue collar employees, but the job offers

we receive.

And also, of course, I have
to say, we don’t recieve everything.

There must be I’m sure there must be a lot of
more job offers, but it’s a part of what we

receive, what we see on social media on
LinkedIn and what we receive from companies.

So it’s going from all kind of profiles.

And of course,

it can very different.

But if we if you look a bit
more in detail, we’re doing this for several

years, but in this year, because it’s quite a
special year due to covid-19, we did extra

research what the situation is on or
what the impact is from covid-19 on

the joboffers , we did a first investigation in May
and now, And if you look at the first

yellow rectangle, we can see, for
2020 about 80 joboffers more

than 2019.

David, Yes.

Can I just cut into it?

Do you understand everything?

Clearly, because I have a
little distortion in the back.

I’m not sure what it is.

It’s clear.

It’s clear.

Thank you.

OK, thank you.

Thanks. So the first rectangle you see the total
of job offers we received until the end

of August.

660 compared with 2019 five
hundred and eighty six joboffers.

So for 2020 it looks that
we have more job offers.

But if we look at the second overview from,
let’s say from the start of Corona, the

end of August, we saw a reduction
of about 13 percent of job offers.

So that means , our interpretation of this
is that we’re quite sure that 2020 started

quit well four for our industry.

But it’s quite logical.

During the Corona period, we have less job offers
and we think that for the next month it

will actually decrease, which
will continue to decrease.

It’s not a situation if you look at the

function, we see an offer and

and it’s almost almost equal.

Equal. So, what is going on?

If you go to the market, if you
look at you look at the different level

where training is needed, first of all,
education, schools, we believe that dual trajects

will be the future for for education.

It’s not not the only part, but it’s an
important part in the evolution in education if it

depends on us.

So last year, some schools
started with dual trajectss.

And maybe I have to explain that, Dual
Trajects are with about 20 hours of practice.

And a part of that is in the company itself.

So it’s, we believe, especially for for the operator
jobs, we think that that is one of

the main projects we have to follow.

At this moment 2 trajects already exist.

That’s for digital print operator and for
Web offset & Flexo operator.

These at this moment they exist and
we are developing some other profiles, especially

for Large format operator, Print
operator and Postpress operator.

And also we believe that to keep teachers up
to date is very important a part of our

budget, we spend it on training also for for
teachers to keep them, to keep them up to

date. The second level, which is also very
important, is the unemployed people at this

moment who follow a training at VDAB.

That’s an organization who keep them
busy with with the unemployed people.

And also here, our vision is to, first of all,
focus on the basics and also do a good

screening of the unemployed people before
to start doing the training.

So, look, if they have the skills needed on
a technical basis, but also “attitude” is a is

a very important issue and then
educate them on the basics.

And we believe that training on the job, what
we call in dutch “werkplek leren” – training

on the job is also very important.

And added on that an intense follow
up is the best guarantee for

for the job.

At this moment Grafoc, we do for about 11
years, We do intensive follow up of of trainees

and in companies who are
who are learning a job.

And we know that that is one
of the most important success factors.

So, as I always said, technical skills and
attitudes are also very important, not for the

unemployed people only, but for everyone.

And I share your point of view
because I’m not as the predicted and

competencies given by the world economic forum , that
they say, that the first top ten

skill will be, first complex problem
solving two, critical thinking, three creativity,

four people management Five coordination with
others, Six emotional intelligence, Seven,

decision making, Eight service orientation, Nine Negotiation
and at last 10 : cognitive

flexibility.

It’s true that the culture and an open
mind in technical skill and attitude is really

important , I share your point of view and
is in line with these 10 top skills put

forward by the economic forum.

Yeah, I agree with those, let’s say it’s
called soft skills competences, but also very,

very, very important.

If that is not OK,it can give some some
problems for for the job you are looking for.

But we also have a third level.

And for GRAFOC let’s say it’s the most
important level for us, because the employees of

course, these are our core business.

It’s it’s very clear, but the triple L
or lifelong learning is very important, important

formal training, but formal training
on the job, very important.

And we also mention
mentioned internal trainings.

Let’s say that that our informal trainings, we
believe that the people who follow a

mentorship training, It’s better to to share
the knowledge of the other people, for

example, if you have a print operator and he
has to explain some information, if he has

to explain his job to a trainee
or a new employee entering the company.

If you follow a mentorship training, you will be
much stronger in his function and it will

be more easier to share his knowledge to
to other people so that all trainings are

important. But of course, trainings from
suppliers are as well important.

It can be trainings if a new machine
enters the company, but also for existing existing

machines from time to time, some training from
a supplier is very important and sometimes

it’s an obligation to follow these trainings.

I think about HP, employees or people
who will work with HP machines.

You have to get the first and the second
level in their training center in Barcelona to

allow them to operate with those machines.

And also here, as well as at the
unemployed people, technical and software trainings are

really important.

So what does GRAFOC do for for bluecollar people
in the companies we have two things on

the left side of an overview
of the training incentives we give.

So you can you can see, depending on the
number of employees who are working at your

company, it can be the
the amount of the premium

can be from 1500 euros up to 11250 euros
that companies can get from from us if

they train the people in the company to make
the people, of course, to make the people

stronger in their job.

It’s also an advantage for the company.

Of course, it’s also an advantage for the
clients if we well trained people in operating.

So it’s depending on several levels, level 2 for
example, for example, is if a company has

a training plan for the
company, they get more money.

We also have the third level.

That’s for companies who have more
qualified as being an intership company,

at this moment we have One hundred and thirty
five of those companies and we have a fourth

level, if a company is investing in
innovative, unique or high tech machines or

techniques, they can get the 4th level.

So it’s going up & up, depending on to what
level you get, to give you an idea, last year,

2019, it’s not completely final.

But at this moment we spent about one hundred
fifty thousand euros that goes back to the

companies, the companies who
invested in their employees.

On the other hand, the green image, we
also give training vouchers within an amount of

250 euros to the employees themselves
who follow a job related training.

So, for example, if you have a printer
operator who follows the training of Photoshop and

he pays himself for this training, he can
get about up to 250/ years from Grafoc.

OK, so that’s in a nutshell what what we
do to stimulate to stimulate people and companies

to invest in training.

I have a last questions with the
covid-19 pandemie, were you eLearning, Training,

such as management or other kind of training?

Well, of course, online training, it’s it
existe for several years, you have believers,

you Non believers .

But I had.

There was a post today of the minister of
Work today that mentioned that about than three

people followed training online.

So it’s raising also due to Covid 19,
but not everything is possible to learn online.

Of course, we need a good balance between learning
on the job by the people of the company

or otherwise by suppliers that we believe, of
course, that online training can be an added

value on on the whole training process.

David, as you were saying, like, I love the
term “LLL” the long life learning curve that

you need.

But in, to your knowledge, in the Belgian
printing industry, Yves also touched on it

because everyone now thinks technology’s
going that high up.

So the skill set of people that already
are employed within our industry, they will have

to step up.

I guess, you know, and then in correlation with
the numbers you gave at the beginning of

your presentation, saying that probably in five years
time we’ll have a lot of people

going and there’s only like
small numbers coming in.

To your knowledge or your idea,
who will be replacing them?

Because if I see these numbers, it won’t be
like the the the people or that the pupils

that come out of
technical or professional education.

So there will be a huge gap.

Of course, there will be natural selection, I’ll
call it, because we’ll probably need less

people to drive the Industry 4.0 small factories
because a lot of it will be automated.

But in my mind still, that there will
be left with it with a huge gap.

Who do you think Will will fill those shoes?

Because we’ll have a problem
on our hands, I guess.

Will it be like more I.T.

orientated guys, or do you think it will still
be people that come out of the technical

schools? That’s another subject we’ll maybe touch
on later, because in Belgium, they just

decided to pull the plug on
on the technical technical education.

But to come back to the first question,
who do you think will fill the gap?

Because we’ll end up with a problem?

It’s a very good question.

And I guess it’s not only for the print
media business, but also for a lot of businesses

who have the same problems,
like population is aging.

So I must say, we don’t have the.

We don’t have a.

The correct answer, we don’t have it, so the problem
is it’s not as new as well because we

as long as I work at grafoc companies
are still looking for Print operators, or Postpress

operators, there are not enough
people in this jobs.

And it will that will be become more huge
problem for for the next years I guess so.

People who are leaving the next year, about
36 percent who get their retirement, that’s a

lot of knowledge that’s leaving the
companies, how to solve it.

I don’t have the real answer.

I don’t have it.

And I guess the next years we
will see how how to solve it.

You don’t need always that
people from from from schools.

But that’s why we put a lot of effort on
unemployed people to to teach them to to have to

give them a good follow up and to
train them on the job in the company.

So in combination with the job offers,
we see that at this moment.

That’s a good a good project.

It’s very successful at this moment.

So I think that’s one of the the
possible ways to do to follow up.

But it’s a it’s a difficult question.

Yes, indeed.

And I do I do see what you say earlier
on, that you were also like giving aid to to

companies that have staff, but maybe not with
the right skill set and that you’re

also aiding them with the kind of subsidy if
they buy, let’s say, if they buy a new

machine from HP or Xeikon or anyone else.

And those vendors now they they have as part
of that package, like also some some schools,

some schooling off of those of those staff or maybe
people that want to get up to, to up

their skills.

So but as you said, it’s mostly very
expensive education and training that these vendors

are giving.

So in that case, can those companies apply for
all of the staff they want to give this

education to or are as you
said, there are limits, of course.

And is, in your point of view, are
companies now asking more this type of

training on the job and when they buy
machines or just for the machines they already

installed in their companies?

Or is it mainly when they buy new equipment?

Well, first of all, people
always talk about training costs.

Of course, it’s not for free training.

It’s not for free.

Is it the cost?

Yeah, maybe.

But it’s it’s always, always gives a great
value added value on the people, on the

company, on the clients to
have well educated people.

For us that that’s quite clear.

So is there a limit.

Yes. In the premiums that grafoc give.

Yes. And it’s for us all
kind of trainings are acceptable.

So I mean, if you have a leadership training
or you have a training for a new digital

press or you have a new web offset
press, or someone has to learn German, English,

whatever, all those kind of trainings are for us,
that the value of this training is is

equal for us.

So all kind of trainings, or almost, all
trainings are accepted for grafoc for the

companies to give them a premium.

Ok, so it’s to strengthen both the company and
the workers and the clients and the client

as well.

I also have a question.

David is a wonderful presentation.

I can hear you now.

That’s apparently my my electronic
headset that doesn’t work,David great

presentation, very enlightening and gave
some good ideas as well.

One of the things I am a little bit curious
about that does not relate so much to what you

were talking about, but maybe to your
work on a more overall perspective.

When you when you communicate with your,
is it’s a member organization, right?

Mm hmm.

So when you communicate with these people that
apply for these services that you offer,

what is your response rate?

I mean, can you send out to three hundred
members and then you get three hundred answers

or you have to really poke them?

I wish.

Well, we have to be honest about that.

So first of all, we communicate with the companies
it has to do because we don’t have all

the data of the people, the blue
collar people who work in the companies.

So if we contact the
companies, it’s a physical visit.

But by telephone, by email, by newsletter,
by website, social media or whatever.

So we have a wide range of communication tools,
but I have to be honest, the response can

be better.

A lot of companies invest in
training invest in new machines.

It costs a lot of money , Somewhere they know
they can get some money off of GRAFOC but.

Most of the people, for whatever reason, they forget
to look at us, look only for for for

the premiums, but we have a whole range of service
for free , most of them are for free

for the companies.

So I should say that you have to
use it more and more what we offer

. If they are looking for a print operator if
they have a job offer, and it would be good

that they contact us and that you can
see what we can do for them.

So the reason the reason I’m asking is because at
the label expo last year, I got a little

bit unpopular with the trade Media in Europe,
to be honest, because I said that including

INKISH, I’m so I’m not I’m not saying they’d be
any better than any, but I said that I

think that one of the problems we as an industry
have is that we have a lot of knowledge

from organizations, from from media, from consultants,
from a lot of different Vendors.

So that is, of course,
a lot of different sources.

But there seems to be some kind of communication
gap because we end up in a situation

where mass communication doesn’t apply to
the owners of the building companies.

Letters, direct mail doesn’t apply to people.

It seems that we have all the same
addresses and contact details of all, everybody.

But apparently we are not communicating to the heart
and the brain of the of the owners of

the printing companies.

And I’m wondering because I mean, I think
that our relationship with you, thanks to

Jacques, is, of course, pretty new.

But we have since six years been working,
really trying to in an unbiased environment,

educating the industry.

But the problem is that we had
the same problems as everybody else.

We don’t get the reach.

But I mean, I think that Intergraph say
there’s like one hundred twelve thousand printing

companies in Europe with about six hundred
thousand people working in the industry in

Europe. And there’s no media that have even
close to any of the hundred thousand printing

companies. And when you talk to the Vendors, not
even close to have like one vendor able

to approach everybody.

So I was just curious if you see
the same problem from an organizational perspective, that

you also have the same addresses as Jacques and
Yves & I have, but we don’t get through

…we have even more addresses.

We have a database.

It’s quite it’s quite up to date.

Most companies, you know, we have to
contact, but not for all the companies.

So we do also physical
visits to the companies.

We talk to HR.

managers and through the sales people, through to
the owners of the companies, etc., I

think. And the reason why they did not always apply
on us, is I think for the main reason

is there is a lack of time and in a
certain way, I can understand that because the the

production is on & on.

That’s just the most important
thing in the whole business.

The the printer products need to
be delivered on time, so.

And so in a way I can understand why they
do not always apply on us or other players.

So like I said, I guess I guess, like
you say, there’s always the sense of urgency, you

know, in a production environment.

But still and, you know, that’s one
of my my favorite topics as well.

That is it’s strange to see that the
companies that invest that much money and

and have to make , well, tried to make the best
of it and try to be best in class, that

you often see the things that you evoke here
that when it’s coming down to that they’re

there, that personnel or the staff then
might like train the top guys, maybe.

But then a lot of the workers, they’re there to
to put to the to put out the production.

And I do agree with you that I think
there’s not enough awareness in companies that the

skill sets of of their workers and their
collaborators should also be top of mind.

On that note, I see that your colleague Herman
, Herman Staes from GRAFOC just gives a

little note on the chat and he says, well,
because Herman is also one of the colleagues of

Grafoc. And he says it depends on
subjects that we, that we trigger.

And if we do research, we call out
sometimes, depending on the subject’s responses between

25 and 35 percent of return of answers.

I think it’s important to mention or to say
that you don’t you don’t say that people, or

that companies do not invest in their
people , we don’t say that.

But, of course, company’s , it’s not
an obligation to ask Grafoc for premiums.

So we don’t know all the things
that are happening in the company.

I’m sure a lot of people are getting trained But
I’m also sure that a lot of people do

need some extra training and they may struggle
on daily problems on their folding machine

for example, I’m sure they would be helped with some
extra training if it’s one day of or

two days that could be enough to help them
so that they have less problems on their own

machine, for example.

So, yeah, and what I notice and agree
with your comment and Morten comments, the

but I noted, it’s often depends
on the profile of the owners.

And it’s true that our printing industry
is a victim of its long past.

And I notice that it’s a new profile of
new entrepreneur, often younger, and who does not

come from the printing industry, are better able
to understand how to train their staff

and why it’s so important.

That’s one of the reasons
why we believe that HR.

is very important in our companies.

Most of the companies are
less than 10 people.

So we try to keep it
simple, as we always say.

But if you have larger companies, I think
that HR in a way is to

keep it very basic, keep it simple that we have
HR is very important in a company and a

new generation is coming up.

So companies need to be prepared for another
mentality of the new workers in a company.

And then we have here another another chat from
from Herman, he says a minority of our

companies have HR.

departments, which means that companies do not
always have time to implement HR.

policies. So I think in general, it means maybe
maybe I’m not sure that the mind set also

within a company should maybe go also from
the fact that I’m not generalizing here, but

that they don’t have to always have to
see staff as, like production commodity, and that

one should think that in the near future, I
think they’ll play a way bigger role because

of knowledge levels increasing and they will
be depending more, I guess, on the

automation, but also on the staff that is
able to understand what’s going on in the

factory with that automation.

And so the challenge, I guess, for for
anyone who’s looking into smart factories, the

Industry 4.0 and automation in general is to
find these people with the right mindset and

the attitude that you’re referring to.

So I think that’s very important and it’s big
time and that companies also be aware of

this, even if they are smaller, like Herman
is saying, they don’t always have an HR

policy, so they might better
start thinking about one.

The minority of our companies have a
HR department that’s really the minority.

And in a certain way,
it’s I can understand that.

But what he also mentioned is
the not always have time.

It’s it’s a problem.

Time is the key word, I
think, in this whole discussion.

But but I’m sure if they use companies like
Grafoc or even other companies, they will gain

some some some time, some effort and money.

So it’s an advantage to to
work with with some partners.

Mm. Excellent.

Well, thank you.

Maybe you have another.

Another question for for David or maybe some insight
from from your point of view in the

French industry.

Do you do you in France, for example,
have this type of initiatives from, say,

governmental aid?

Like like subsidizing.

Yes. Education or training?

Yes. In many during this
context, the government and

try to help the company to provide
the profit to this period, to

printers and to give facilities
in order to to.

Find more use, and that’s the reason I had
a question about the e-learning , and different

type of Solutions.

I shaire really your point of view and it
is really important to find the right attitude,

the right mindset in order to approach
this new concept of 4.0 and it

true technological issues And automations will
have an impact up to

the task of the operator of tomorrow.

But the main issue would be how
even for the owner, eather for the

leader or manager to to find the right
skill and the right attitude to to

discuss about this subject
and find solutions.

Thank you very much.

Morten, just a quick question for you.

Do you think discussing all of these items?

Because, of course like in Skandinavia like all
over Europe where we’ll have all we’ll

have, we have the same problems.

Do you think that like the federations, maybe Intergraph,
do you think they have a role to

play in, like maybe facilitating
this, at this problem?

The funny thing is that in this little
close community that we’re talking with right now,

you can ask if if organizations like
Intergraph and some of the federations

become so self-sufficient that they don’t really
see the forest with all the trees.

And I was just about to say that, for example,
if you look at Intergraph, they are like an

umbrella organization for all the
federations of printers in Europe.

But the main and the main objective is
to be lobbying towards European Parliament and

everything that goes on
in Brussels, basically.

Right. And I can give an example.

The last year they had an application to
the European Union where they were looking for

funding to fund a project about how to
educate the young people to get into the

understanding, the values of being
members of the printing industry.

And, you know, it’s kind of funny that this
project that should, in my opinion, take place

regardless of funding from the European Union
or not, because all the federations in

Europe, they have the same interest in making
our industry attractive to the young people

as well.

So whether they play a role or they don’t
play a role is very much, I think, independent

from organizations or
organizations across Europe.

For example, I know that there’s two
organizations in the UK like federations.

I think that one of them is very active.

I can’t remember which one I
think that we got in Denmark.

We’ve got a new president and CEO a couple
of years ago and really active and really

progressive in how the organization works.

But in Norway they are one and a half person,
so how should they be able to do anything,

basically? And so I think that that the industry
needs, you guys know that we have been

talking that in multiple occasions, is that
the industry should take a higher

responsibility for our
own knowledge building.

And webinars is one platform, seminars is
another platform using GRAFOC is definitely also

something that came to my awareness about
something that should be used way more.

And that was why I was
asking before, because of the industry.

And it starts with the printers,
it starts with the employees.

It starts also with the vendors.

If they are not interested in educating
this industry and participate in really

proactively endorsing organisations like Grafoc, I think
we, I think we have big problems.

And I think that the education is the key to
to understand, and we are, as this week has

proven, we have we are moving into 4.0.

And if this industry doesn’t educate and get on
that level, I think I think it will be

difficult to be attractive for young ones.

I think it would be difficult to be , keep
relevance to the to our end customers, to be

honest. I agree.

I agree.

So, yeah.

So I think that if I should conclude on
anything, it’s like and that is my biggest concern

also from an INKISH perspective, how do we, Make
the print owners click on the films that

give them the knowledge or open the magazine, and
I think the reason why I was criticized

by the trade media is basically because I said, you
are on the vendor side, you are not on

the printers side.

And that’s why nobody wants
to read your magazines anymore.

And I think that is still a fact because,
well, this this event here has also proved that

it’s not so much about machines.

Right? It’s not so much
about the newest Internet technology.

It’s about the mindset.

And the mindset comes from education and understanding
how people work with each other, of

course, utilizing the technology available.

But if the industry doesn’t want to take that
path and if the trade media don’t want to

participate in that route as vendors and
the federations and the print owners don’t

participate in this in this journey, it will
be quite tough for them, to be honest.

You know, I don’t want to generalize
it for all the companies, but.

No, no, no, no, no, of course, no,
I’m not saying everybody know that our local companies

who are doing great work on offering
trainings to the people, 100 percent, HR.

management, etc.

But for the other other companies who are
maybe not that big , it can be

an advantage to use the knowledge
of the network that we have.

And also very often it’s almost for free.

Maybe that’s the problem.

And I don’t know that we
have a lot of knowledge.

We have a great network and a
lot of contacts a lot of experience.

So they should.

Well, it seems that we will not
be unemployed the four of us.

We will have a lot of work in
the future to keep pushing the boundaries.

Right. And at this time
we created some the channels.

And so we’re happy that we could get you on
board here for, to give GRAFOC also a voice on

this platform as well.

Wonderful. Wonderful.

Thank you very much.

Very interesting.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, David and Herman.

OK, so I will give the final word to Morten.

Thank you very much.

This is the final session of this week, and
I have been listening to all of the sessions

in English, to be honest,
from from Monday till today.

So my butt hurts and my head is full an apart
to get home and get a gin and tonic together

with my wife tonight.

And and then I look forward.

I actually look very much forward to download all
the sessions in the week and trim them,

make some INKISH graphics on them and make sure
that we can have them ready for Replays

next week.

I think everybody who has participated in this
have been extremely well prepared and very

open minded and very willing
to also share their knowledge.

And I think that’s part of the, I think that
maybe is for me, the most important part of

Industry 4.0, that we are moving into collaboration
and openness in the degree that I

think even the printing industry has not been
in for the past 20 years at least.

And I think it can take a lot of people
if they want to go to the next level.

So I want to thank everybody
for being part of this week.

We haven’t had as many live attendees as we
wanted, but I’m certain that the Replays will

be very valuable content for everybody and
for those who are listening into this.

And we plan to have subtitles in in
the French, German, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese and

English for all the sessions.

So will the films will be published next week,
and then the subtitles will come along as

our translation team have the hours to do
this, because there’s a lot of hours here.

But thank you and Yves and Jacques, my
dear colleagues and friends from INKISH France and

Benelux. So great to do this
and know you this week.

Thank you very much.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

Morten , see you all soon.

Yeah, let’s play the end video here
and then have a great weekend.

And thank you, all of you.

Thank you.

Have a good weekend, Ciao.